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Help with free convection

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hi everyone

I'm quite new to comsol modelling, and here I've run into this problem trying to model a free convection in air
being a test model the geometry is simple, just a heated plate surrounded by air, which is subjected to a buoyancy force.
the problem is this error message" failed to evaluate expression" every time I try to solve it using constant damping, but when I try automatic damping it cannot converge, maybe I linked the two physics wrong?
I've attached my model here, would be much much appreciated if anyone would look into it and tell me what's wrong..

best regards
Eric


5 Replies Last Post 2014年4月1日 GMT-4 17:18
Ivar KJELBERG COMSOL Multiphysics(r) fan, retired, former "Senior Expert" at CSEM SA (CH)

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Posted: 1 decade ago 2010年10月23日 GMT-4 04:34
Hi

you ave probably a few issues, on I see, is the "orange" color of the "air" material proparties. When you choose library materials you need to carefully check all variables used, are these constants or functions, linear or not ? Specially in your case you need to be sure "air" is using the correct "T" and "pA". As you mix in several physics you have potentil duplicated names in there, to avoid this COMSOL adds the physics "(identifier)" name before the variable. you have a "ht.pA" and might have "spf.pA" (?) but "pA" alone is not defined (try in the Results section to integrate "pA", you will get an error, but not for ht.pA). There fore you must already start to edit your matrial data variable name pA to ht.pA.

For T it's slightly different because its a dependent variable of HT and exist globally as is without the "ht." prefix

Then another point check carefully that your pA and T values are within the valid range of the material data, you get easily outside what is defined by default !! (probably not the case here but is a frequent source or errors difficult to detect on only the results ;)

Finally you have several study cases, there I need some more time to understand what you are doing, as I do not find all variables therein ?
I do not fully catch your model and boundary 9, nor the outlet pressure is it absolute "0" or relative to pA ... check the equations behind but you must really understand all items of your model else, you will not get the results as expected, and these are not always so "easy" to validate/verify by hand calculations

Probably you should restart these from scratch and continue stepwise first one physics.

Main comment start from top of node tree and check carefully the coherence of your model top down before runing a study

--
Good luck
Ivar
Hi you ave probably a few issues, on I see, is the "orange" color of the "air" material proparties. When you choose library materials you need to carefully check all variables used, are these constants or functions, linear or not ? Specially in your case you need to be sure "air" is using the correct "T" and "pA". As you mix in several physics you have potentil duplicated names in there, to avoid this COMSOL adds the physics "(identifier)" name before the variable. you have a "ht.pA" and might have "spf.pA" (?) but "pA" alone is not defined (try in the Results section to integrate "pA", you will get an error, but not for ht.pA). There fore you must already start to edit your matrial data variable name pA to ht.pA. For T it's slightly different because its a dependent variable of HT and exist globally as is without the "ht." prefix Then another point check carefully that your pA and T values are within the valid range of the material data, you get easily outside what is defined by default !! (probably not the case here but is a frequent source or errors difficult to detect on only the results ;) Finally you have several study cases, there I need some more time to understand what you are doing, as I do not find all variables therein ? I do not fully catch your model and boundary 9, nor the outlet pressure is it absolute "0" or relative to pA ... check the equations behind but you must really understand all items of your model else, you will not get the results as expected, and these are not always so "easy" to validate/verify by hand calculations Probably you should restart these from scratch and continue stepwise first one physics. Main comment start from top of node tree and check carefully the coherence of your model top down before runing a study -- Good luck Ivar

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Posted: 1 decade ago 2010年10月23日 GMT-4 05:07
Hi Ivar

Thanks so much for your help!

for all those study cases, please ignore them, those were me testing with different solver settings.

as for the pA versus ht.pA issue, yeah I think you are right that may give potenial problems, however I tried to change it into ht.pA but it still cannot solve:(

this may be asking too much, but if you get to see this, could you help changing my settings somehow and make this model run-able? I've started from scratch several times already, including combining the two physics into "conjugate heat transfer" but none of them can give satisfying result:(

and lastly, thanks again for all your help!

best regards
Eric
Hi Ivar Thanks so much for your help! for all those study cases, please ignore them, those were me testing with different solver settings. as for the pA versus ht.pA issue, yeah I think you are right that may give potenial problems, however I tried to change it into ht.pA but it still cannot solve:( this may be asking too much, but if you get to see this, could you help changing my settings somehow and make this model run-able? I've started from scratch several times already, including combining the two physics into "conjugate heat transfer" but none of them can give satisfying result:( and lastly, thanks again for all your help! best regards Eric

Ivar KJELBERG COMSOL Multiphysics(r) fan, retired, former "Senior Expert" at CSEM SA (CH)

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Posted: 1 decade ago 2010年10月23日 GMT-4 05:09
Hi

check too your initial conditions, do you not think you have p=1[atm] at start ? and is it not your physics that is controlling the pressure in the spf ?

--
Good luck
Ivar
Hi check too your initial conditions, do you not think you have p=1[atm] at start ? and is it not your physics that is controlling the pressure in the spf ? -- Good luck Ivar

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Posted: 1 decade ago 2010年10月23日 GMT-4 05:19
Hi Ivar

Yeah, in fact that's the puzzling part, from the example model file here
www.comsol.nl/showroom/gallery/1448/
they actually set the initial pressure in the fluid to 0 and 1atm in fluid properties, but same settings won't work on mine model... I've also tried changing those to 1atm and P+P.ref respectively, that didn't work either..:(

thanks and best regards
Eric
Hi Ivar Yeah, in fact that's the puzzling part, from the example model file here http://www.comsol.nl/showroom/gallery/1448/ they actually set the initial pressure in the fluid to 0 and 1atm in fluid properties, but same settings won't work on mine model... I've also tried changing those to 1atm and P+P.ref respectively, that didn't work either..:( thanks and best regards Eric

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Posted: 1 decade ago 2014年4月1日 GMT-4 17:18
hello, Luo Shi and Ivar Kjelberg

i'm , PHD in electronic and i'm working a cell solar organic and i did the part optic ( calculating the rate of generation ) but the part electric is difficile. could you give me a model a cell solar organic and I working also by comsol , could you help me for this part( electric ) plz, my email is : fottball2012@gmail.com

thanks you
hello, Luo Shi and Ivar Kjelberg i'm , PHD in electronic and i'm working a cell solar organic and i did the part optic ( calculating the rate of generation ) but the part electric is difficile. could you give me a model a cell solar organic and I working also by comsol , could you help me for this part( electric ) plz, my email is : fottball2012@gmail.com thanks you

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